Valtteri Bottas, Mercedes, Hockenheimring, 2019

Bottas was unaware of Hamilton’s off before his German GP crash

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In the round-up: Valtteri Bottas says Mercedes hadn’t told him Lewis Hamilton had nearly crashed at the same corner where his German Grand Prix ended.

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What they say

Bottas said the team tries to minimise radio chatter during wet races to avoid distracting the driver and so he wasn’t told Hamilton had nearly crashed at turn one shortly before his race-ending crash at the same corner:

I was not informed about that. There was obviously plenty of things going on in the race and for sure the team had to filter also in that kind of conditions what they informed me about, what kind of information they feel I should have.

It is more demanding mentally to drive in those kind of conditions and it doesn’t need much to make a mistake. Obviously you try to minimise the workload for the driver, for all the outside distraction and information. I didn’t get that information.

Maybe now looking back it would have been maybe nice. And it was actually only [when] I saw the spin and crash I had from kind of the top view and I could see only then the proper clear line of dry line and then wet line outside which wasn’t that visible in the car, actually.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Red Bull dropped another of their driver market bombshells yesterday:

I am quite surprised. I honestly thought they would leave Gasly at Red Bull for the rest of the season.

I do wonder if they have made a mistake by promoting Albon so soon. This does put a lot of pressure on him as he must realise this is his big opportunity. I would have given Kvyat a second chance as I think the extra experience he has would have helped him to adapt more quickly.

The atmosphere at Toro Rosso is going to dismal as well I imagine. Gasly feeling demotivated and Kvyat feeling he won’t get another chance. Helmut Marko does appear to be a real piece of work.

Good luck to Albon though. I hope he succeeds.
Phil Norman (@Phil-f1-21)

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On this day in F1

  • 30 years ago today Nigel Mansell scored an unlikely win at the Hungaroring from 12th on the grid, passing Ayrton Senna for the lead when the McLaren driver was slowed by Stefan Johansson’s Onyx

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  • 44 comments on “Bottas was unaware of Hamilton’s off before his German GP crash”

    1. That “minimum talk” radio message came back to bite Bottas. Does anyone remember when was that?

      1. @Only Facts! In Silverstone in 2017, and it was ‘minimal talking’ to be more precise.

      2. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
        13th August 2019, 7:50

        Really, that surely implied this was only the case in this situation. And this was when Massa and him were unexpectedly leading the race under pressure from the 2 Mercedes. That is hardly an unexpected thing to say in this situation.

        1. @thegianthogweed A different race, though.

          1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
            13th August 2019, 13:55

            Ugh yes, sorry for that blank moment :D I was talking about 2015… Was well off.

    2. It’s 2019 and people still mentions Pastor as a bad example? so unfair! the guy is a race winner, and a damn fast driver… sure he needed some polish, but Grosjean’s been in F1 since 2012 and he’s still crashing on his own. I expected more from a guy like Sean Kelly.

      As for Red Bull, it’s been downhill since Ricciardo was promoted. They hit the jackpot with Vettel and followed suit with Ricciardo. But Max wasn’t a product of them, and everyone after him had trouble adapting, because they were promoted too soon. Albon might suffer the same, from being out of F1 8 months ago to jumping into one of the best cars of the grid, against one of the best drivers of the last two years.

      1. Anon A. Mouse
        13th August 2019, 4:12

        People need a punching bag and Maldonado is a prime candidate because he’s not currently in F1 anymore to defend his track record. He wasn’t that bad of a driver, but F1 fans have a short and very selective memory. I fear Gasly is about to fall into a similar status – Albon as well if he can’t find the instant pace that RBR and supporters are (unreasonably) expecting.

      2. @fer-no65 well if you want to make the point about max i guess you’d also have to make it about Vettel? as far as i remember he was a BMW junior before being drafted into toro rosso mid season to replace some other highflying red bull junior (liuzzi? speed?)

        1. dang it it already was in the tweets

        2. @mrboerns He only ever was in BMW on-loan by RB, though.

          1. is that so @jerejj ? i only remember that he Made a name for himself in Formula BMW as well. he might have worn rb branded helmets but the car was looking pretty bmw-ish iirc

            1. He also raced in Formula Renault, that does not make him a Renault junior, @mrboerns.
              Vettel was in the Red Bull Young Driver Programme from 2002, well before (and during) his racing stints in Formula BMW.

            2. @coldfly @mrboerns Vettel is in the RBR Junior program since 1998, his karting career had their support

            3. @johnmilk. I assumed the Red Bull Driver Programme own website would show the right year ;)

            4. Maybe it wasn’t official @coldfly? Or not brand associated?

            5. Regardless. Point is Vettel is definitely a Red Bull Junior program graduate and not someone who was brought at a later stage

              Otherwise we will start to argue that teams have to pick them at birth

            6. @johnmilk, fully agree with the ‘regardless’, and disappointed that Keith promotes tweets from ignorant ‘tweeters’ who claim the opposite.

              PS – just read this on their website: ‘From the moment that the Red Bull Junior Team was founded in 2001’. Thus most likely sponsored by Red Bull but not part of the programme (as it did not exist yet).

            7. @coldfly nice catch yes, that makes sense

      3. I’ll tell you why these drivers are promoted too soon: because red bull only takes drivers from red bull junior program, which prevents them from taking capable driver outside the series or from other teams, so ricciardo left, they had to take someone from toro rosso to red bull and it could only be hartley, gasly or albon who hadn’t ever been in f1, they obviously picked gasly, then gasly massively underperformed and they had to take someone, this time they had 2 decent choices in kvyat and albon, they went with albon cause they already saw what kvyat can do and want to gamble on a better driver, should he fail they can get kvyat back, but they don’t have anyone else as long as they refuse to hire from outside their stable.

        1. @esploratore Or they could’ve gone for Sainz back then as he was still part of the RB-camp and only ever was at Renault on-loan. Yes, the move to Renault at the tail-end of 2017 minimized his RBR-chances, but still technically linked to them, so, therefore, could’ve been chosen as the replacement for Ricciardo.

          1. Maybe the McLaren deal was already done, Ricciardo decided to move quite late in the silly season from what I remember @jerejj.

            Anyway, pleased for Sainz he’s not battling Marko et al. anymore. He seems to be having a great time at McLaren and massively helping them out as they recover. Must be very satisfying.

      4. @fer-no65 The minute Maldonado crashed into Gutierrez while exiting the pits was the moment I stopped finding excuses voor Pastor.

    3. Is this a deja vu? I think I read that Bottas quote here already. And in a round-up…

      No?

      1. @johnmilk No, just another recycled/rehashed quote, which probably was said on Thursday before the Hungarian GP.

      2. Blame the summer break, @johnmilk; they need to fill 3 weeks with Hungary quotes :P

        1. And these quotes were reported by other journos 2 weeks ago.

          Exactly my frustration with the current daily round-up; it is no longer a summary of what happened in F1 the previous day.

        2. @coldfly first time I noticed was yesterday, the Leclerc quote felt a bit old, and today I almost could put my money that the Bottas’s one was already published here, if not in the round-up in some other article

          with that said, that is a section of the round-up that I usually skip (apart from the title obviously) and I go straight to the links. As long as those keep the same quality and are up to date I don’t mind the old quotes.

          1. Unfortunatelly the social media section is very skippable as well, @johnmilk; today is good example.
            And (broken record warning) the link section more and more often misses good articles. It seems that they do not want to link to competing websites.
            I now use https://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/F1 to get my full review of yesterday’s articles.

            Apart from the round-up, this site has still the best quality items, stories, and features.

            1. I use that one too @coldfly, though it has a bit of click-bait tipe of articles

              social media I skip that too as I don’t care about it in general

    4. Seriously, @keithcollantine, why include that nonsense tweet from Duncan Vee? It’s not true! Red Bull supported Vettel all through his junior ranks. He has a Red Bull livery in Formula BMW! He had a Red Bull livery in Formula 3! (Both years!). He had a Red Bull livery in Formula 3.5! Yeah, they realised that loaning him to BMW for third driver duty would be best, because:
      – BMW ideally wanted a German, and he was available
      – Red Bull already had Speed, Liuzzi and Jani at STR, Ammermuller at RBR, all of whom where further in their career and being tested (back when the RB Junior Team has a lot larger numbers than now)
      – It was essentially free track time for their most precocious talent

      This utter nonsense keeps getting propagated by people who want to downplay Red Bull. I dislike Red Bull, dislike Marko, dislike their junior team approach, dislike how often they have discarded serious talent and how badly it has hurt those talents. But stop this weird approach of trying to downplay how Vettel is entirely a Red Bull product. He was from day one. He was always going to end up in F1 for them – BMW’s chance just gave his career that little extra jolt to jump the queue, which the underperformance of Speed and Doornbos and co would have done anyway. This revisionist history is ludicrous.

      1. @hahostolze it’s a post-truth world now, revisionist history is pretty much ubiquitous in all walks of life.

      2. what he said. print it, frame it, hang it on a wall

    5. It feels weird to read something along the lines ‘calling someone an old man when he was 23’ given I was 23 not long ago, and that was last year, in fact.

      While I share the same views as the COTD in principle, I can understand why they gave Albon the nod instead of Kvyat despite the difference in F1-experience between them.

      1. Trust me, it gets worse. Sad fact of life.

    6. Disagree with COTD on Torro Rosso.

      Whilst disappointed at not getting the RB drive, I think Kvyat is comfortable there and performing well. He’s coming off the back of a podium, is a more mature driver these days and his motivation will be up.

      And I predict Gasly will actually breath somewhat of a sigh of relief at returning to where he performed well last year. He’ll be determined to prove all the critics, and RB, wrong.

      I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they both have some strong drives in the second half of the year.

      1. Well it is possible that Kvyat is happy with his lot. He has just become a father as well of course. Surely though as an F1 driver he must want something more i.e. a more competitive drive?

    7. Thank you for COTD @keithcollantine

    8. As for the f1 theme music. I can’t find any of my old posts about it so I can’t be sure if my opinion has changed. Looking back many people did not like the music and I could swear I was not too impressed back then either. But I think it works. I do kind of like it. It makes you feel up and energetic about what is coming and it does not feel too pretentious. It is not perfect but as far as recognisable theme tunes goes it does not annoy me at all which is already a lot more than some manage.

      I think the way the music was presented back then was very lacklustre. It was released as a song instead of part of a video which meant it lacked the emotional punch when you did not see f1 cars overtaking, drivers winning and losing and teams celebrating on the video while the music was playing. There was also a fan made compilation video but it tried to use the whole song which made the song feel extremely repetitive. Which was a bit misleading as you’d never use the full song but use parts of it. The f1 theme song is not something you listen on its own. It is more of an emotional multiplier that you add on top of video to increase the emotional connection or use as part of other graphics to trigger certain part of he brain to “here we go”.

      1. If you mean the theme music that plays before the races, its actually sadly my favorite part of the races on some days.

        And yes I think your analysis is spot on. When combined with the commentary of past incidents of the course, it fits extremely well.

        It beat the UEFA Champions League music in my book by a long mile at least, as iconic as that song is to me.

    9. OK, Now I’m just cross.

      How many of these Tweets you mention @keithcollantine are from people who should know better? Just because the last few years have had stable driver line ups during a season does not make it unusual for the tradition of F1 teams changing line ups not a thing.

      Look at these years for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_World_Championship
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Formula_One_World_Championship
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Formula_One_World_Championship

      As just a few. It used to be that Formula 1 wasn’t a “job for life”, but one where your performance even race to race sometimes would judge whether you kept your seat, and there was no shortage of drivers willing to step up.

      Now, with arguably a better feeder series than ever in F2, but with draconian super-license rules, it means that drivers can be pretty average and be safe in their seats at least for that year. The fact is that Gasly isn’t even out of F1, and frankly should step up and prove again why they got the RBR call up to begin with.

      Formula 1 should be cut-throat, and decrying a team for wanting the best out of a sport that is meant to be for the best of the best drivers in the world is frankly ludicrous.

    10. Obviously the ones who actually had the insight beyond “Why they so mean to Gasly/RBR are incompetent” don’t count!

    11. Two things. First a question about second driver info and the second about RBR seats.

      1. There have been at least a couple of occasions this season where Leclerc has not been given information by the team. At least one instance here for Bottas. I don’t recall the same for Vettel or Hamilton–happy to be proven wrong. Do people think that there is anything to that, or more that it happens and we just happened to have heard the comments in these instances?

      2. I am wondering if RBR is clearing the way to sign someone outside of the RBR stable for the second seat next year. Kvyat has had time at RBR, now so has Gasly. Albon hasn’t really shown anything (to me) that indicates he will perform in that seat. But either he does well and RBR has a cheap second driver, or he doesn’t and then RBR can throw up their hands and say we need someone from outside Red Bull’s young driver program. Thoughts?

      1. @hobo From the audio of the German Grand Prix that was being given from the F1 App, Vettel also has trouble getting the information he wants sometimes. Hamilton, if anything has the opposite problem – sometimes he’s offered information when he doesn’t want it (but he’s not gone down the Bottas route, so I think he’s willing to tolerate the occasional over-information to avoid the issues Bottas and the Ferrari pair get).

        I’m starting to wonder if the Red Bull development program is on the path to being wound up… …and what that means for Toro Rosso.

        1. Thanks, @alianora-la-canta, good information.

          I haven’t seen any particular rumors on STR, so I don’t really have any thoughts on that. But I do think that they need to have better drivers in lower tiers ready to move up because their current drivers are not inspiring.

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